In Tess of the d'Urbervilles Hardy creates a classic love triangle between Alec, Angel and Tess. H.M. Daleski in his criticism Thomas Hardy and Pardoxes of Love states:
"The typical Hardy plot places a female protagonist in a love triangle with two male protagonists who are portrayed as polar opposites. The woman contradicting a general view of her as victim is always granted the freedom of choice of a marriage partner. She invariably makes the wrong choice, which leads to a bad marriage and disastrous sexual relationships."
We see this conclusion fulfilled in Tess, but what of Hardy's other major works? Is this conclusion accurate for all Hardy's work? Does your novel support this conclusion? Post now!
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Well... I haven't made that far in my novel yet. I am on chapter 10 now... but i believe just from the first few chapters that the "love triangle" is somewhat reversed. I believe it is between Henchard, His wife, and Alcohol. And following the trend... he chosses the wrong one and it ends in disaster. Him Bidding his wife off and then passing out on the floor.
Sam ...do you think Hardy was a teetotaler?
i think this idea is also going to be found in return of the native. right now my character is already having issues with her fiance, and they aren't married yet. i think this novel shows the importance of status in the way Mrs. Yeobright deals with the fact that her niece didn't get married when they said they were going to and how big of a deal it was. i think this idea is rediculous because it doesn't mean that their relationship is not correct or good, it just means they didn't marry when they said they were going to . they take things so seriously which is kind of rediculous to read since the values of their time period are so different than ours.
So far in the mayor iof casterbridge i have alredy seen this idea. In the mayor of casterbridge the husband sells his wife right off and she lives with the salior she is sold to but numerous times she thinks of leaving the salior because she is not in love with him. As soon as the salior dies she immediatly starts searching for her past. Her old husband is the mayor of casterbridge so she becomes the victum because she was sold by him in the first place and now he is too good for a poor woman like herself. Even theough her husband told the woman who worked at the furmity tent that if she ever came back to tell her where he was because he knew he made a mistake. So already in the book the mayor of casterbridge it is following the basis of hardy's writting about love triangles.
It is hard for me to say right now whether or not I think Hardy is following the same theme in Mayor of Casterbridge. I would probably have to say he isn't. The reason why I say this is because Henchard doesn't get any of the things he loves. He gives up on trying find his wife and stops drinking. I haven't read that much yet so maybe my ideas will change.
I am in chapter XIX, and so fare it looks as if it is going to be similar to Tess except for Bathsheba seems to be dealing between the fact that farmer Oak proposed to her but she doesn't want to marry him because he is a poor farmer. Now there is Mr. Boldwood who she wrote a type of secret admirer kind of note to with the seal "merry me" on it. The last guy is Sergeant Troy I don't fully unederstand where he stands with her yet. So its going to be similar to Tess in the fact she is going to have to make a choice weather its her choice to make or not. But I see in Far from the Madding Crowd more emphasis on the vanity of Bathsheba choices then fate being the deciding factor.
in the book Tess of the D'Urbervilles i do not believe that tess made the wong choice by marrying Angel. i believe that tess married the right man but she could not remove the wrong man (alec) from her life so her marriage ended up, not necessarliy bad, but unfortunate. if Tess had married Alec first of all there wouldn't have been a book, and then i believe that she would have had a truely unhappy marriage since she did not love alec. she would have regreted her decision which would have made the situation worse.
In Sam Cantell's professional opinion Sam believes that Tess in way make the wrong dessision to marry Angel, instead of alec. Meaning who in there right mind would marry a guy that raped her? It is a question you have to ask yourself before you come jumping to concusions. Hardy writes about fait so it angel and tess were ment to be then they would have been, or tess and alec. However Tess was suppose to be raped by alec and become married to Angle. The love triange is a way for tess to question the fait in which hass been predetermind in her life.
I am at a point in Far from the Madding Crowd where I can assume that Bathsheba is going to make a bad decision. So far I have learned of Gabriel Oak and he seems like a great guy, pure and true to his word. Because Bathsheba has denied her love for him, she will go to another man who seems better, different than a poor farmer (shepherd)and break his heart. Farmer Oak will probably leave the picture, developing Bathsheba's story and meeting a new, seemingly great person to her however, like Alec from Tess, he will have his flaws. He may harm Bathsheba. Having read how Tess's story panned out, we can see that the good person is introduced early but disappears, becomes bad, and then returns as the hero, the one to take the girl's heart, despite money and status. Due to this prior knowledge of Hardy's work, it can be concluded that Bathsheba will go for love in the end.
I agree with Dena in that the characters in Return of the Native really exaggerate the idea of marriage and make it seem like the act of marriage itself is more important than the connection the two people share. I can definitely see the pattern in Hardy's writing that depicts the female character being swooned by two possible love interests. I'm not sure how that would fit in with The Mayor of Casterbridge, since the main character is male and it's definitely a more political novel, but in Tess, Native, and Far From the Madding Crowd it's easily picked up. Even in Jude the Obscure, which I haven't read, I can see that the triangle between Jude and the two women he entangles himself with is one of Hardy's make.
I think, as I haven't read that far into the book, that in Far from the Madding Crowd we will see similar works. We see Bathsheba deny Gabriel Oak marriage in the beginning and she leaves. I am sure from what others are saying that there is a love triangle in the making! and I agree with Melissa in that it seems to be more about vanity in Bathsheba.
In the book mayor of casterbridge, i dont think that Hardy is following the same theme as in Tess, however i am not that far along. It seems as though the beggining is the more tragic part, maybe leading to a smother ending. Henchard does stop drinking so that may lead to another good change.
If i can be complewtely honest Mr. Getty... I belive Hardy could have been turned into a teetotaler. When you think about it... it wouldn't be a completely absurd idea that Hardy wrote this book maybe after becomming sober, and maybe as a confession to some sins (probably not as bad as selling your wife and kid) he commited while "under the influence"... then again... he could have just been brought up that way.
Definitely in Madding Crowd there is a love triangle, although Bathsheba can choose between three guys. The two she does choose in some way are the exact opposites though; Boldwood is more reserved and rich wheres Troy is poor and dashing. The perfect choice would be Oak who like her even before she came into wealth and who is a nice mix of the two other men. Where I am in the book though Bathsheba is definitely making a bad choice that she will regret. If I had to predict what Bathsheba will do, she's going to find this out the hard way and then pick a smart choice that has nothing to do with her heart and also regret it.
This plot is also seen in Hardy's Far From The Madding Crowd. Main character Bathsheba is placed in a more developed and complicated love triangle, or maybe its a square, between Gabriel Oak, William Boldwood and Sergeant Troy. She has the difficult decision of choosing which man she would like as her partner. At this point, I'm not far enough in the book to decide if she makes the wrong choice as typically happens. The beginning of the novel does support this typical theme of Hardy's major works which leads me to believe that what's to come are many mistakes on her part.
sam provides a good connection with the main character henchard and the love he has for alcohol. yet i would only ask why the only person in the love triangle is the wife. the fact that he sold his wife as well as daughter seems to be neglected. it would be more appropriate to say that he was in a love triangle with his temptations or sin (drink) and purity ( wife and family.) this allows for more in depth look at what he is henchard is stuggleing with. as of now, he has chosen the wrong one and ends up recieving nothing that he desires. he reminds me of Tess in a way. ( getty, he is DEFF not a teetotaler, at least not yet. he hasnt reached total rock bottom yet and therefore as an addict he sees no reason to stop. good forshadowing prompt)
I agree with Heather. I think that Hardy chose to continue with that type of pattern. It seems as though he likes to have a love triangle or conflicting love in each of his works.
As of the end of the first section of Jude the Obscure, there is not currently a stressed love triangle (that's not to say their won't be) but there is a very murky relationship between Jude and Arabella, where he is essentially pushed into marraige when she tells him that she is pregnant with his child when in reality it was a facade put on by Arabella to get him to marry her.
In Far From a Madding Crowd, Farmer Oak has just met Bastheba and she has already told him that she won't tell him her name because she will have nothingto do with Gabriel Oak. I can sort of tell that Gabriel and Bastheba will fall in love but it will be too late. Some guy will come along and Bastheba will marry him instead of Farmer Oak.
For a novel to be interesting it has to have problems and tension. If the two people fall in love who are perfect for each other no one wants to read about that. They want the struggle and plot. Hardy uses this because he knows it will get him readers who in reading the romance will also read his other themes that he really wants to write about.
I haven't gotten very far in Far from the Madding Crowd but Farmer Crick is an odd man who seems like a stalker. He pays for this woman to get through the toll road and he holds this girls hand for a while of who he doesn't know her name. This had potential for a relationship as she lets him hold her hand and mentions the thought of him kissing it.
I do believe that In Mayor of Casterbridge a love triangle is developing. This triangle involves Henchard, Henchard's flaws, and his family. However I'm not very far into this book so i'm not quite sure about how this triangle will come to be, but my prediction is that it will continue to grow. It seems that Hardy tends to have the same themes for many of his novels, which is where my prediction comes from.
Does anyone know why Hardy is obsessed with love triangle, squars, or other polygons? I didn't realized this until the class discussion today and there is a love polygon in every book!!!
Is it because he did not have a a complicated love life as he had hoped. Or maybe he did not like how women played with his emotions like a game.
In Far From the Madding Crowd it is obvious that Bathsheba is the protagonist who is caught in between a love triangle of more than one man. The novel persuades the reader that Gabriel Oak is the "Angel" of the story. He is the right choice for Bathsheba, though she neglects to choose him. From the beginning of the story she was cold to Gabriel when he nicely paid her toll, and she made no effort to thank him or show any appreciation. Later when Gabriel actually proposes to her she rejects him and responds that she would very much like to be a bride but not to be married. It will be interesting to see if and how Gabriel and Bathsheba end up together.
I do believe that this is possible in most of Hardy's novels. For example, the book i'm reading, Jude the Obscure, is basically the same exact book as Tess of the d'Urbervilles, except for the fact that the main character is a male and not a female. But besides that the same incident takes place, a/the protagonist (Jude) falls in love with another character(s) in the book (Arabella) and has a relationship with the character. Sometime later in the book another character rises (Sue) and takes there place in the triangle, and soon after the protagonist falls in love with them. Making the wrong choice (Jude marrying his cousin, Sue, and having a child) they soon go into a downward spiral and end up in a "disasturous sexual relationship". So, yes, i believe that the love triangle can be used in other Hardy books besides Tess.
Well, in The Mayor of Casterbridge, there are definitely a love triangle going on. Henchard sold his wife to another man for money while he was drunk. This presents the traditional Hardy love triangle.
After just finishing "Mayor" I beleive that the love triangle is between Farfrae, Henchard, and Lucetta. Lucetta is torn between the two men. You can see that at the moment she loves Farfrae more, however she has had past relations with Henchard and feels a bit obligated to be with him. Her relationship with both men eventually lead to her death.
As I stated in a comment posted on the Jude the Obscure page,
The plot in Jude the Obscure does support this conclusion, however in Jude the Obscure, Jude is a male forced to choose between two polar opposite women (his cousin Sue; who is a woman married to a schoolmaster, with some alternative beliefs about education, and Arabella; his first wife, who was born and raised as a pig wench). So it supports his conclusion, it just so happens that the genders are switched in Jude.
This is a very accurate assumption of Hardy. It is now evident that Basheba is the protagonist in Far from the Madding Crowd. She is stuck in the love "triangle" between Boldwood, Troy (antagonist), and Gabriel (the right match). Bathsheba first tells Boldwood that she will try to love him when he proposes to her, but does not follow through with her promise. Next, she meets Troy and falls in love and marries him. He turns out to be vain and irresponsible. Their marriage ends up failling, and after many important events in the plot, Bathsheba marries Gabriel.
Hardy creates Bathsheba as the female character who is given the power and status of a man, but uses it foolishly by making the wrong choices. Unlike Tess, Bathsheba is not as pure and sweet. She is vain and impulsive.
In most of Hardy's novels, a love "shape" seems to exist, though it is not always a triangle. Whatever the shape, however, the story will always involve positive and negative options, resulting in destructive decisions and, ultimately, tragedy. Take the Mayor of Casterbridge. Michael is trapped in a triangle between his pride and what’s right for Elizabeth Jane. As in all the Hardy books, he makes what we as readers know is the wrong decision, and chooses to protect his pride. He keeps EJ away from Farfrae because he feels threatened by him, and verbally abuses her because she has “embarrassing” rustic quirks. The way he treats EJ leads to a dramatic disconnect between them, and when Michael needs her most, she isn’t there for him. His decisions lead to his demise.
The idea of a love triangle is following through in Mayor of Caterbridge. Only with the twist of the fact that the love triangle is between several different groups. There is never really a love triangle between two men and a women but instead between two women and a man.
There was the little love triangle between Lucetta, Susan, and Henchrad. Then there was Donald, Elizabeth Jane and Lucetta. And then there was the love triangle between Lucetta,Henchrad, and Donald.
The plot does follow in almost all of his books i took the time to look at a few of his other books and i found that there was a love triangle in Far From the Madding Crowd between Bathsheba, Gabriel and Sargent Troy.
So the paradox of love criticism is corrective in predicting what hardy's plot will contain. Because most of the time the plot is between two male protaginists who are portrayed as complete opposites and then there is the contradicting female charcter.
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